Let's jump in at the deep end right away: here's your first prompt, which will be homework for Wednesday, January 14th: go to the following link
http://www.kristisiegel.com/engfish2.htm
Read the excerpt "The Poison Fish" from Ken Marcrorie's book Telling Writing.
It talks about ENGFISH, a common form of student writings (AND textbook writings!!) that you might encounter in your career - especially those of you who become teachers.
Your task: write a short blog comment about your personal experience with ENGFISH - are you maybe student teaching already, and have seen it in your kids' writing? Did they serve you ENGFISH in their final exams when they wrote: "When I came into this class I knew nothing, but this semester I've learned so much; I owe it all to you, and you are a great teacher"?! Or did you produce ENGFISH texts yourself in certain situations? What do you think about the term? Does it work for you, or do you think it is inadequate? Better suggestions? Or do you perhaps have a funny example of ENGFISH you want to share? How can its use be avoided?
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22 comments:
I found the ENGFISH article to be interesting. I have student taught in the past and now looking back I can see examples of students using ENGFISH. I did not stop and ask them why they had chosen to use a certain word but I did ask them if they knew the meaning. I did not find that using ENGFISH was improper in their writing as long as they knew what the word meant and if it fit with the rest of the sentence. I remember at times encouraging students to explore their vocabulary and try to find synonyms for their words so that their papers did not seem to repeat. I would still encourage this because I find words to be fun and enjoyable to learn. I can say that I have produced ENGFISH at times myself. I have used words that I believed gave the reader a bigger bang when reading my paper. I now realize that the reader may have disbelieved the paper because it may not have sounded like my own words or beliefs because of the some of the wording I chose. I think ENGFISH is a good term for that type of writing because at times it does have a fishy smell when you run across it in a students paper.
Okay, I admit it! I've utilized this whole "ENGFISH" concept. Being a JRNL major, it's quite often I'd have to submit papers with analytical but yet logical ideals. Most teachers throughout both my high school and college career mentioned that as a writer, I have strenuous skills, but with pros follows cons. From personal experience, according to professors, using expanded vocabulary or "ENGFISH" (which, to me, is the over-excessive use of large vocabulary) has hindered my intelligence. I'd give these elaborate responses either because it's innate for me to be expressive or maybe because instructors have molded us (students) to be "grammatically correct." I've found that using this "form" has vexed many audiences. They want it "cut throat...straight to the point!" On another note, the toddler vs. student example highlights that students are "dead" in their writing. How can you blame them? Most college standards require that we're more objective rather than subjective; thus, disregarding too much opinion or "entertainment." IT'S SCHOOL! Overall, "ENGFISH" shouldn't be discardes as a brown paper bag, but used in moderation. Hell...at least I will. ;-)
I admit that I have used Engfish in the past. I think the reason I do this is because it is hard for me to say what I really want to. I have written papers in the pass and the teachers say it is good but it needs more. So I would do more and find myself writing Engfish. I thought it sounded impressive and the teacher would really like my style of writing. I think it is hard to stop writing like this when you have always done it. Also, I think that as a college student I want to sound intelligent, I don’t want what I say to sound like a child has written it. I know that I am going to have to work to improve this. This article was very helpful in giving examples of what Engfish was, so now I know what to watch for and I can improve my writing skills. Hopefully I can stop using Engfish and my writing style will be real. I don't want what I write to sound phony or pretentious.
This article is very true, yet the Engfish dialect is something that one must master in order to be successful in academic writing. (See, even when rereading this, I see the Engfish coming out) Maybe it's because I am an English major, and I have found the more colorful the phrasing, the better marks I receive. I have found, like the article said, I may have had more profound writing in my youth, rather than now, years into my college life. =/ Doesn't give me much hope for future endeavors.
“Engfish” is gradually working its way into the English language. Educators have to take much of the blame for this because students have spent so much time being taught to write “Engfish” as opposed to good English. I think part of the reason students do this is to attempt to circumvent the length requirements that often accompany English assignments. Students assume by throwing superfluous words into the mix it will take up more space on the page as well as make them sound smarter. However, all it really does is produce another example of “Engfish.” I must admit that I use "Engfish" not only at times while I am writing but also when speaking. In fact, I'm afraid to proofread this post for fear of finding numerous examples of it.
I am absolutely guilty of producing Engfish. Engfish is a product of our environment. When writing an analytical paper it is hard to avoid what most students, including myself, view as proper language you would use to analyze. It's about giving the instructor what you think they want to hear. Perhaps it is a form of miscommunication, or maybe it has more to do with imitation. The textbooks aimed to a college audience are written in a dull boring tone, and over time imitation is unavoidable. It is slowly diminishing the students' own voice and creativity.
This article about ENGFISH made me laugh. The article is so true in the sense that it makes you realize how often you may use ENGFISH. I am in my second year of student teaching and I find ENGFISH at most schools I observe at. The students are trying to sound smarter or more intelligent to impress the teacher, but what ends up happening is the students do not understand what they write. I believe it is more important for students to understand their writings rather than worrying about impressing a teacher with grammar skills. Slowly, the students are losing their own voice and creating one they do not know.
I have produced Engfish myself, as well. In high school, students are being pushed into writing more for quantity instead of for quality. I do this more because I have do not really know how to say what is I want to say or what I am feeling. I have turned countless assignments to teachers and they will return them saying that they are good, but need more to them. When I would try to produce more, I found myself using crazy words that only made look as if I was trying to fill the space that I was asked to fill. The teachers did like what I put, but it was not what I really wanted to say. From my experience in the classroom in the past two years, that teachers are encouraging this way of writing way too much. The students get to college and end up falling behind because of it.
ENGFISH- I didn't use a lof of ENGFISH before I got to S.I.U. I'm the tye of person who just writes and says whatever i'm thinking. So what I write tends to be personal and alive, well it did before I got here. Last semester I had an English teacher who wanted professional writing containing outragous vocabulary and mine wasn't what she was looking for. All of my papers had red marks on them. She wanted ENGFISH so in order to do well in that English class here at S.I.U. I had to use it.
As I was reading this article, I was talking to this girl via Facebook messenger. Almost as if on cue, she said, "English majors are whack."
I've gotten this response to my major with surprising frequency, since people associate English with Engfish these days. And really, who wouldn't think that if all they knew was Engfish? Textbooks are completely Engfish, hence they are a boring waste of $80 that I won't get back at the end of the semester because the bookstores rape me.
My friends ask me to read over their papers from time to time, and virtually all of them use Engfish, but a worse offense than Engfish itself is that they consider the writing to be good.
I'll admit that I have used Engfish from time to time, in the moments of deadline desperation, but I'd be embarrassed to share it with you. Skimming over the other comments already posted, it seems that many a writer is guilty, guilty, guilty. Why do we do it? Are we not ashamed?
I too am guilty of using ENGFISH. Most times I’ll start off with a good idea and then get half way done with it and run out of things to say. Engfish makes it possible for me to complete my sometimes ridiculously long papers. Too many teachers put page lengths on their assignments and I realize that they have to so slackers won’t just do half a page, but come on. In a past class I had to write a 20 page paper on a Shakespeare play. After submitting a rough draft to be proofread, I realized what my teacher wanted: more Engfish! It’s what we are being taught. Using Engfish only makes it harder for me to write, it’s not something that comes natural to me or is easy for me to do.
This ENGFISH excerpt was very enlightening. I never took the time to think that throughout school we are taught just the proper way to say something. We aren't encouraged to say it in the most appealing way. I took a poetry class here at SIU and it relates to ENGFISH closely. When I write a poem and am looking for the best way to express the subject, I need to step outside the generic terms. I need to express my subject in a way that connects the reader emotionally. I think that our common daily way of writing is just that, common. It needs to be much more expressive and has to draw the reader in, in order to be successful.
I can say that I definitely used Engfish in high school, and while I was using Engfish, I think it's hilarious how just like the article said, I thought I was doing the right thing! This article made so much sense. I have never heard the term ENGFISH before, but I have to say it totally makes sense. From time to time, whether in class or as a favor, I'll edit a paper done by a peer and in those I've seen quite a lot of ENGFISH. I'm guilty of it myself though, and I would love to figure out how to get rid of it!
I thought this article was very interesting and have noticed that I too use Engfish often. I think that as students get further in school they are taught to use Engfish and become so accustomed to it after awhile that they do not even realize that they are losing their creativity in the process.
"Engfish" describes the writing I've done over the past year. I write the way I think the teacher wants and I still feel like I'm not getting anywhere. I've lost my voice and that is terrible because I write poetry. It is very true that as you get older it seems as though you are taught to lose your voice and write in a scripted manner. Nothing seems to come alive anymore because you are caught up trying to sound intelligent instead of sounding like yourself. We all once new our voice and the article is right. We need to try and get it back. I hope I can learn that this semester.
I am in the Paralegal program. Last semester I did an internship with a local law firm. Through this internship and my classes, I have learned that "ENGFISH" is often used by lawyers. Sometimes, the purpose of using this type of language is to simply make the process seem more formal than it truly is. Other times, the purpose is to persuade a jury into agreeing with something that they would not normally agree with.
Many attorneys use "ENGFISH" because it is what they have been trained to do. After spending seven years in college and many years practicing law, these attorneys have become so accustomed to speaking and writing in a certain way that they do not realize the problem. This is the same reason that college students use this type of language. After many years of being taught to write "ENGFISH", it is difficult for students to understand or realize their mistake.
I know using Engfish is shoddy, but anytime I become bored writing a paper I turn into a robot and flush out my creative juices. Why would I try to be funny or an entertaining read when I’m reviewing 16th century Dutch agriculture? Often when I write lively, I feel like my words won’t be taken as seriously. Instead my thesaurus gets heavy use as I look for stuffy words that rival the material and will take up room on the page. I become so disinterested that I turn into the Jacques Cousteau of Engfish.
While reading the article, I found myself guilty of ENGFISH. It never crossed my mind that I had been trained on how to "properly" express "my" thoughts. Usually when I write a paper I try to stay true to my thoughts. However, when I think about the standards of particular instructors, my ENGFISH comes and takes over. It seems that this form of writing makes it easy to get an assignment done, but can be a horrible way of getting the point across. But,I admit I do like ENGFISH, it makes my life more simple at times.
I believe the ENGFISH article is very revealing about every student. As we get older, we do learn to pick up things that have been learned along the way, and try to enhance our writing with "sophistication" and "style". By this time, many of us have been introduced to the "show don't tell" method of writting, and in that, and many other writing methods, we focus more on developing what we are writing as opposed to the "heart" of what we are writing. Long drawn out details become our way of telling a story, instead of the bringing out the main idea behind the story all together. After reading the article, it took me back to my third grade classroom, where I loved to write about the simple things that life had to offer. Whether it was bedtime stories, fictional characters, my bike, or my dolls, it didn't matter. Back then, my thoughts and words were much more pure, because they weren't contaminated with reality TV, insecurities, or the fear of not being accepted. In my youth, I was open, and enjoyed the little things. As a future teacher,and someone who has experienced going through different changes, I feel that students should be graded on the content, in that they say something that is important or revealing to themselves. I feel that although students are trying to develop writing skills, and how to speak properly, they should still be able to be themselves, and speak in their own voices, because in the end, that's what's real.
Oh, how I laughed.
I have typed several prototype sentences since cementing my first one and have deleted all of them in an attempt to wean myself from Engfish.
This "Engfish" concept strikes a chord with me, as I am both a creative writer and a graduate of the Illinois Math & Science Academy. The difficult classes I took as a high school student provided honors-level training in Engfish. No matter what subject I took, whether it was history, English, math, molecular biology, or modern physics, the dialect was the number one tool I used to succeed in my papers and discussions. One professor told me to use a maximum of one "to be" verb per paragraph in my often 15 page American Studies papers. That tip will infinitely influence my writing. Although it facilitates the use of a broader vocabulary, it can also lead to some pretty gnarly Engfish.
Now, as I create poetry and fiction for potential publishers, I feel a sea-change. I read often, and many of my favorite authors employ styles so different from the Engfish I have always known and loved. When I write, I want simply to translate my soul's rumblings into a balance of words and sentences. I think a lot about the mouth-feel of words, and I rely heavily on metaphor. In my quest to become a better writer, I have felt myself fighting something, and now I know what it is.
I have a few more sentences:
The part of the essay that includes the third grader's paper makes me feel that I have at least made progress on this journey. The seemingly abstract references to the grandmother and the jar gave me a vision of spending a hot, muggy summer inside of a two-story house with a sick woman upstairs, and the tear of her scream through the thick air...
Those are the kinds of pictures that I see in my mind and try to record.
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